[20 November 1919]
Statements made by Nasib Beg Usubbekov and Alexander Khatisian, the Prime Ministers of Azerbaijan and Armenia respectively, following private discussions, on the conflict between the two countries, to Col. James C. Rhea of the U.S Army. The discussions were followed by an agreement signed on 23 November, 1919 in Tbilisi, reflecting the major concern, the cessation of hostilities.
Mr. Usubbekov: We have agreed that all military operations must be stopped, but we have not yet agreed on details. We will discuss these questions further and in case we are not able to agree, we ask You [Col. Rhea] to decide the questions. I have proposed to the President of Armenia that Armenia withdraw all her regular troops, officers and military agents now in Zangezur, that no war material shall be left in Zangezur, all guns, rifles, etc. be withdrawn, and the people disarmed; that the roads leading into Zangezur shall be kept open for traffic and that refugees are to be returned to Zangezur.
Mr. Khatisian: I agree also that all military operations shall stop and that troops remain in the status that they were two weeks ago and that we decide our differences by Conference, Colonel Rhea to be the umpire in any case we cannot reach a decision.
Armenia has no regular troops or armed troops in Zangezur. The people who are armed there, are local population. It would be impossible to withdraw the local population or to take their arms away from them. I could not issue an order to them and have it obeyed. Therefore, it is better for me not to issue an order. Anyway, it would be bad policy to issue such an order at this time due to the excited state in which the people find themselves.
The repatriation of refugees will require some time, and also this is hardly the psychological moment. The question of refugees will have to be settled at a special Conference.
I suggest that all roads should be opened. When the local population feels safe enough to use their roads, their Government will give them all assistance.
On the whole, I do not see that there is any great disagreement; there may be a difference of opinion about choosing the psychological moment; as for instance, if there were a pending battle or some similar circumstance, the movement should not be attempted; this should be left to the Conference.
We have decided to meet tomorrow at eleven o’clock to reach some agreement and we have both decided that if there are any points in disagreement, we will refer them to You.
Mr. Usubbekov: I think that although there may be no disagreement on particular points, there is some difference of opinion on details; for instance-the roads. I think the people should be ordered to open the roads, while Mr. Khatisian thinks that assistance only should be given in opening the roads.
Mr. Khatisian: I am especially anxious that there should be no ordering about as, particularly in the Caucasus, one must be very careful in this regard. I do not wish to order anyone about for fear that the order would not be executed.
Mr. Usubbekov: The trouble is that an order is very often given and no one uses the force to enforce it. On the other hand, I think that the population of Zangezur should not be treated as a separate state. They have no business keeping arms. They should be taken away.
Mr. Khatisian: I do not consider the Zangezur district a separate state. However, as long as this district is surrounded by hostiles, I can not advise them to disarm. In the southern part of Karabagh, there are Kurdish units which are very hostile; we must be very careful.
Mr. Usubbekov: Unless we are prepared to order and enforce our decisions, it is useless to make decisions, because the population will not follow them.
Mr. Khatisian: In that case, it would be necessary to disarm not only the one district, but the whole of Azerbaijan and Armenia. Otherwise, any order would be unfair to one population or the other.
Mr. Usubbekov: I have nothing at all against the universal disarmament of the civil population.
Colonel Rhea: Would the gentleman be willing to take all the arms off his battelships? (General laugh[ter]) As far as I can see, You have agreed on only one point and that is, that there shall be no more fighting. Would the gentlemen like to come here tomorrow at eleven o’clock? It is convenient and I will be here. I am very much obliged to the gentlemen and am glad they have gotten as far as they did.
Mr. Khatisian: If we have any disagreement, we will elect You as arbiter to decide the disputed points. If a section of the population in Armenia revolts, the state should have the right to put down that uprising. Every state should have the right to deal with the population within its own borders. If there was a village in Azerbaijan which mutinied against the Azerbaiajan Government, they could not be expected to wait for the Peace Conference to handle the situation.
Mr. Usubbekov: We have not many days left before the general Conference and shall not raise these points now. I quite agree, that there should be a line drawn between the two cases, that is, subjugation of those who revolt by administrative measures and the other is by military and punitive measures, and they should not take place until the Peace Conference decides our fate.
Mr. Khatisian: I prefer not to approach the question in this form because it touches the sovereignty of my state and limits its power.
Mr. Usubbekov: In the same way I think that there is raised also a question of the sovereignty of Azerbaijan in regard to the Zangezur district. I think that no military force should be used for subjugation of the population. (Armenian diplomat raises the question of minorities.)
It would be impossible to apply two different rules to the same subject. There should be one rule for both parties. For instance, Nakhichevan; if the Armenian Government had thought of subjecting it, Azerbaijan would feel fit to declare war. It would be just to find one principle to apply to both parties equally.
Mr. Khatisian: I do not object against the methods – I object against the principle. We have talked about a district where we have no authority; now the Minister raises the question of sections of country which are under Armenia. I feel that Azerbaijan would have a perfect right to put down the revolt. I object to the question with reference to internal administration.
Mr. Usubbekov: Exactly for this reason I was quite astonished that the Armenian Government took very much to heart this Zangezur affair. When the Azerbaijan Government thought it best to subjugate this district, the Armenia Government was quite ready to declare war about it.
Colonel Rhea: If we can settle the Zangezur question, all this talk will be unnecessary. I suggest that as You are all tired and hungry, that You confer again tomorrow. Other questions may be settled and discussed later.
Mr. Khatisian: I have about a dozen questions of general character, but these can be the subject for the Conference to convene later.
Colonel Rhea: If you can settle the status of Zangezur and decide what other questions are to be decided by the representatives appointed by You, You will have accomplished much.
Mr. Khatisian: Otherwise we will be here a week and have constant meetings with the Prime Minister of Azerbaijan, and that is something for the Conference to do.
Mr. Usubbekov: I think that there should be general agreement about stopping military operations wherever they may be because, for instance, in the district of Zangibassar, if the Armenians thought that they could subjugate this population by military measures we would of course consider ourselves justified in issuing an ultimatum.
Mr. Khatisian: If You take that standpoint, then I also have a dozen questions of the same kind. We have definite information that in the Nukha district there are a lot of Armenians, who cannot go out of their villages. The Armenian Government does not intend to have any military operations now but still thinks that refraining from use of the military to subjugate certain districts violates the sovereignty of the state.
Mr. Usubbekov: I raise this question of general principle, to apply not only to Armenia, but to Azerbaijan and do not think there is anything wrong in that.
Colonel Rhea: This is opening up a big question, which I think ought better to be put off until tomorrow. In the meantime, the gentlemen can make up their minds as to what questions they want to discuss.
Mr. Usubbekov: There is no great disagreement. If we do not agree on certain points, we will ask You to act as Arbiter.
[Republic of Armenia Archives, File No. 3]
The Karabagh File, Documents and Facts, 1918-1988, First Edition, Cambridge Toronto 1988, by the ZORYAN INSTITUTE, edited by: Gerard J. LIBARIDIAN, pp. 24-27
